BECKS72

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Member Since: 7/2009 Last Seen: 5/17/2012

Formula for restoring our Nation

Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:27 AM EST

The strength of our Nation is not in its standing armies, its generals or its politicians and definitely not in its political parties. History teaches us that transportation is an engine that feeds industry. From the Apian way in Rome to the Erie canal in New York economical transportation has fueled nations. No one as come forward with a vision of the transportation of the future.

I would propose that the government hire Disney or Pixar or a company that has imagination to paint a picture for us of a futuristic green system. A Federal planning commission for trains, cars and automobiles and that includes a modern power grid. The last Federal system was I believe the Interstate expressways promoted by Eisenhower. We need a vision or goal for the Nation to rally around. But most important to restore us to the leadership in transportation we enjoyed for years. The sad truth is we have fallen to were we aren't in contention for fifth place. High speed trains, autobahns, light rail are all foreign to us.

Those that are fortunate to have traveled abroad are all surprised at the transportation options in other nations.

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Public Discussion (36)

Becks72

This approach might also help us out of the recession !

3 votes

#1 - Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:20 PM EST

Elbonian

And high-speed trains, subways, and light rail equipment are all made outside of the USA, so buying that stuff won't do much for the US jobs we so desperately need.

2 votes

#1.1 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:32 PM EST

Becks72

Anyone interested in job creation and investing in our future ?

3 votes

#2 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:13 AM EST

lisaed

becks--our President is on it.....continuing his smoke and mirrors game that he is (now that he's gone all centrist) a supporter of our capitalist system...he's put his good bud GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt on the case naming Immelt chair of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. Doesn't that make ya feel all warm and fuzzy about job growth in the private sector?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-21/obama-taps-ge-s-immelt-for-economy-panel-replace-volcker.html

7 votes

#2.1 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:39 PM EST

kazutam

Becks

I agree with you that we are "missing the boat" on the transportation side.

The problem as I see it is that there is too much money in continuing to do things the same old way. After all look at Amtrack, they have been getting government funding for decades. How many "bailouts" have been done for the airlines? And let's not forget the rescue of 2 of the Big 3 recently.

So these companies can make all the profit possible, and when their practices have caused problems for their companies they just get a "bailout" from uncle sam.

Here in Oklahoma City they are currently planning some "improvements" funded with sales tax money. ONE of those "improvements" is supposed to be a "light rail" system for the downtown area.

Now IMO they are missing the boat on what they have planned. For some ungodly amount of money they are going to put this system in, and it will only serve selected parts of the downtown area.

There are NO plans to extend this system out to the surrounding communities(which contain many of the suburbs that folks who work in the downtown live in) which include towns like Norman where the University of Oklahoma is, and which is where a LOT of the traffic for the downtown area originates. So I honestly see no sense in putting in a system like that if it is going to do NOTHING to reduce the traffic congestion.

But since I am NOT a "civil engineer" and don't have the ear of anyone on the city council or planning commissions, my ideas will go unheard and the money allotted for this system and the chance to do something truly good for this metro area will be wasted instead.

5 votes

#3 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:18 PM EST

Stone5150

That is the problem with the light rail systems they put in metro areas, they only serve the crappy areas no one wants to go. They did the same thing in Phoenix. Not sure what the point is to run from ghetto to barrio to downtown.

3 votes

#3.1 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:16 AM EST

Dr Know

We used to have a "light rail" system in place in many cities. I remember riding the "street cars" in St. Louis over 60 years ago. What happened to them? General Motors (remember them?) did. They worked hard (and succeeded) in getting "light rail" reduced or eliminated in many cities.

There is a reason that the equipment for light rail systems is made outside the USA. COST.

Many foreign companies have an "American presence". This presence is a Brick and Mortar facade so they can pretend to be "American" when it is only a storefront for the foreign enterprise.

2 votes

#3.2 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST

Elbonian

I'm old enough (barely) to have ridden the trolly car in Los Angeles. When it happened, replacing the trolly cars with busses made a lot of sense. Now, they have light rail in Los Angeles, fed by bus lines.

Unfortunately automobiles have allowed cities to sprawl out to such a degree that there is no good public transportation route for most people, even in a large city like Los Angeles. The cities where public transportation still works are those which are geographically constrained, and thus have built up rather than out. San Francisco and New York (Manhatten in particular) fit this pattern. Most of the rest of US cities do not.

The reason that light rail serves the bad areas of town is those are the areas where cheap workers with fewer automobiles live. Putting public transportation in those areas allows downtown businesses to hire cheap workers and not deal with parking, etc., which would run up the cost of such workers.

For the middle class, public transport almost never goes conveniently from where we live to where we work outside of places like San Francisco and New York. My car had to go into the shop one day and I discovered I'd have to take a 30 mile bus trip with two changes to make it 8 miles into work. So, I just called in sick. It was my car that was sick, but still....

1 vote

#3.3 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST

etva

The problem as I see it is that there is too much money in continuing to do things the same old way.

I'm afraid, I have to agree with Kazutam. We have had such incredible leaps of technology in so many areas -- but not transportation or oil-based industries.

I suspect there have in fact been some brilliant ideas or discoveries -- maybe even designs, that have been quietly bought up, suppressed, or just hidden away until it's convenient or profitable.

3 votes

#3.4 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:10 PM EST

Atsidi

Was looking into sites about suppressed inventions a while back and it is amazing.

4 votes

#3.5 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST

CL1

I agree with Kazutam as well. Light-rail was implemented in my area and connects a few major areas, but the multibillion dollar projects to continue expansion have gone by the wayside with many cities failing to find the funds to connect.

1 vote

#3.6 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:36 PM EST

Nofluer

Ahhh... dreaming is alive and well in America!

Couple of things that you need to consider...

First you cannot consider the Apian Way as an economic panacea. the roman roads didn't exist to move commerce, though they did that too. the Roman roads were created by and for the Roman ARMY - which brought peace and ORDER to the wilderness. These days, the government is the primary SOURCE of disorder.

And second, but primarily germane - WE'RE EFFING BROKE and DEEP IN DEBT!!! All those fantasy things you envision cost money. We squandered our money on taking care of people who didn't want to take care of themselves. (See LBJ's "War On Poverty" which is still with us and sucking what life remains from our economy.)

Oops! Too bad.

9 votes

#4 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:21 PM EST

kazutam

Shhhhhhhhh,

Don't confuse them with facts........... ;-}

6 votes

#4.1 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:41 PM EST

Dr Know

The Interstate system promoted by Eisenhower was NOT to improve commerce. Like the Appian way before it, it was so MILITARY assets could be moved quickly (Ike did run a small operation for the country - the War in Europe). At that time, the payload of airplanes was "small" and STOL (short take off and landing) cargo planes were not developed.

Supertrains will not help the economy. The problems with our economy have nothing to do with physically relocating the merchandise.

3 votes

#4.2 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:00 AM EST

mightyj

I know this is going to sound dopey but I always figured that we could have big enclosed super highways that are powered by the sun. The advantage of that would be that you could manipulate airflow to be just a little slower than traffic. Cars going down these highways would be swept along by the wind and get more than a hundred miles a gallon fuel consumption. Off ramps and on ramps could be designed to minimize losses.

Leaving that aside we need ideas that produce something. If we put herring hatcheries on all of the rivers here in the East we could probably produce enough fish to feed Africa and then some. Nobody wants to do things like that in America though, can't let the government do anything usefull it might screw up the free enterprise we don't have.

3 votes

#5 - Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:54 PM EST

Stone5150

Those that are fortunate to have traveled abroad are all surprised at the transportation options in other nations.

Too true, in the States the options are drive, take a crappy bus that stops about every 10 feet, ride a subway or light rail that usually goes nowhere near where the general population wants to go, or fly. Amtrak isn't too bad but they aren't that great outside the Northeast.

1 vote

#6 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:19 AM EST

oldfogey

Becks72, yes, I have been wracking my brain and practicing the power of positive thinking to come up with partial solutions to the jobs and economic woes upon us. It is like pulling teeth to get many aroused to coordinate or support any kind of group effort. The government says it wants to help with creating small business and then proceeds to dig moats around areas that might prove profitable.

Take a look at cowcorners.com. That is only one of many tries at gaining interest for businesses that can generate jobs and help the greening also. I have much more where this comes from.

1 vote

#7 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:30 AM EST

Nofluer

And now the other shoe drops - why don't we have all those spiffy transportation options?

The nation is on the verge of bankruptcy - about to default on the national debt, and this is the lead headline in today's Wall street Journal:

OBAMA TO PUSH NEW SPENDING

And the dumbass STILL thinks, $two trillion later that the government can create jobs by spending. JAYSUS! HOW did America end up with a president so FARGING DUMB???

7 votes

#8 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:45 PM EST

gmross

The sad truth is Disney was asked to do just what this article states, come up with a transportation system for the United States, it came up with the "Monorail", this was turned down by the government as too expensive. Sad, but true.

2 votes

#9 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:58 PM EST

Becks72

The transportation of people, goods and services has historical provided employment and growth. The inter state road system might have been for military reasons but one only has to drive down any interstate to see the growth of hotels, food and services that sprouted up at the exits.

2 votes

#10 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:06 PM EST

Atsidi

I am the first in my family in about 4 generations that hasn't worked for the R.R, and I have always been an advocate. I do fail to see the need for speed though. The problem isn't with the trains, but the track. Most trains will run well over 100 mph, but they are running on 70mph track, if that. Why do we need to get everywhere in such a hurry anyway?

One of several things that a lot of people don"t seem to consider is the increasing costs of fuel and it's limited future supply. Trucks, cars and highways are on the way out, whether we like it or not. Like someone mentioned above, the country is broke. We cannot afford the upkeep on a failing and soon to be obsolete form of transportation and the roads required for it. There is only one form of transportation that can move the freight and people around and keep the prices affordable and it won't be trucks and buses. I don't expect many to agree with me, but when gas goes to 10.oo a gallon and you are living on beans and potatoes (if you are not already) you might want to re think railroads.

2 votes

#11 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST

gmross

This is all true, you can move more frieght by rail than you can by trucks and you can move more people by rail than you can by busses, and the cost of this is less.

2 votes

#11.1 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST

Elbonian

In the old west, towns would by and large tend to grow up near where the railroad had laid its tracks. Transportation has always been a key element of prosperity. Even in ancient civilizations, cities grew up where rivers met the sea or where major roads crossed or in similar places where transportation would be more-readily available.

The automobile and a fairly-cheap network of roads for autos to run on has dispersed the citizens to such a degree that cities no longer require major transportation hubs to be viable.

This trend will only continue as we move more into electronic commutes, which is also what is behind offshoring a lot of formerly middle class US jobs. Other than face-to-face sales jobs, most business these days can be done just as easily by two-way video link. We are just beginning to see the portable two-way video technology become widely available. Ten years from now, it will be ubiquitous. At that point it will no longer make sense to support the massive capital expenditures that railroads require for human transport. Amtrak will go the way of the dodo. Goods will continue to travel by railroad, as they have successfully for many years. But not people.

1 vote

#11.2 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:03 PM EST

Stone5150

I have ridden Amtrak before and it really isn't that bad. It is actually a fairly nice way to travel, that is assuming you don't need to rely on it to be on time or go near anyplace you want to go.

2 votes

#11.3 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST

Atsidi

And all this electricity is generated where, by what? And all those goods you order electronicaly are delivered how, on roads made of what?

2 votes

#11.4 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST

Becks72

If you look at history we were once the first in transportation and manufacturing. If you travel the world you will find that we are not even in fifth place now. Ask yourself why China is spending so much money on infrastructure. Moving things by rail reduces the dependence on foreign oil and costs of transportation

2 votes

#12 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:30 PM EST

Atsidi

As I have said in other places, this has never been a very pragmatic country.

3 votes

#12.1 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:36 PM EST

Nofluer

China is spending money on "infrastructure" in order to boost their GDP and to keep their unemployed from rioting.

When is the last time the US built a city that could house and provide work space for one million people - that was finished and then left uninhabited. China just did it. Sure - raised the GDP - but doesn't do squat for the nation or the economy.

5 votes

#12.2 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:39 PM EST

Stone5150

China is also investing a bunch of money in Middle East and Africa, mostly building business tie and mining operations.

We too are spending money in those areas, but we are getting nothing out of the deal except target practice for million dollar missiles meanwhile putting our soldiers at risk so we can feel badass by playing World Police.

3 votes

#12.3 - Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST

Socrates1

I'm not sure if pouring massive amounts of capital into a transportation system could be considered the single feature of a "formula to restore our nation".

3 votes

#13 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:13 AM EST

Stone5150

A better interstate transportation system and green technologies, both of which can be exported for profit, are decent options for at least getting away from corporate welfare for airlines and off the oil teat of the ME.

2 votes

#13.1 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:40 AM EST

gmross

There is an article on the vine about how green technology has been trying to get a foot hold here, but has been failing because of finance problems and then has been bought up by places like China and shipped out of this country to the other countries.

2 votes

#13.2 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:42 PM EST

Socrates1

Now if only I could find that crystal from Atlantis......that's the ticket.

4 votes

#13.3 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:47 PM EST

Becks72

The big question is do we spend our tax dollars at home or on foreign interests. I believe charity begins at home and strengthening the infrastructure but a first step !

4 votes

#14 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:59 PM EST

gmross

Click on my name and check out my sight.

#14.1 - Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:06 PM EST

Dr Know

They want to build a "super train" from LA to Las Vegas? Why? Is there a big demand to travel to LA from Las Vegas?

Of course, it is to attract more people to gamble in Vegas. In the old days, gamblers got free rooms, free shows,free food. No longer...

3 votes

BECKS72

Formula for restoring our Nation

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